posted by RedBaron (Will C. Crowder) on 12/03 at 19:17
Hi folks,
RedBaron here...Here's a question which I hope will start some discussion: Is it ever "rude" to offer a double in a backgammon match? One situation where it may be (I honestly can't decide) is when you are in a "sure win" situation (that is, there's no way your opponent can win the game). Offering a double there is either a way of saying "Let's move on" or it could be construed as "You're such a bad player, you may take this, even though you can't win." I've been known to offer a double under those circumstances, but never because I think my opponent will take it...it just saves them the ignominy of resigning. On the other hand, just as there's no shame in folding in poker, there should be no shame in resigning a hopeless situation in backgammon.
Another situation where it may be rude is when the double does you no good, that is, the game is already worth enough points for you to win the match. And of course, offering a double under those circumstances is a mistake: the other player just may win the game, and they have no reason at all to refuse the double.
Offering the cube should not be taken as rude behavior. I will do it hoping my opponent will refuse the cube so I don’t take further risks of bad dice. A question I have is how many people really know how to use the cube correctly. I have offered the cube to players that accept it while I am bearing my men off and they still have a few to bring around just to get in their home spot. Once that happens I don’t offer the cube to that player anymore since it appears they would take it at any time. I accept or decline the cube based on my chances of winning that game. Another thing about the game is the odds of hitting an open man. When I have to leave a man open I will select the one that has the least risk. For example if I leave a man open and you would need to roll 11 to hit me you only have 1 chance at rolling 11. 10 you have 2 chances, 9 you have 3 chances and so on.
Re: Etiquette of doubling in matches
Message #84 Replies: 0
posted by RedBaron (Will C. Crowder) on 12/08 at 19:19
Thanks for the thoughts, Ironman!
I think I've come to the conclusion (thus far, anyway) that offering the cube is only "rude" in the case where the player who can win the match anyway at the current point value offers it. It's a very "in your face" kind of move (and not particularly smart, as mentioned before)...Of course, depending on how the game has gone, and what comments have been typed in the message area :-), it may be appropriate even then (but probably still not smart)...
One comment:
ironmanmv (marc) wrote:
A question I have is how many people really know how to use the cube correctly. I have offered the cube to players that accept it while I am bearing my men off and they still have a few to bring around just to get in their home spot. Once that happens I don’t offer the cube to that player anymore since it appears they would take it at any time.
Accepting the cube under these circumstances isn't always wrong [IMHO]...It really depends on what kind of shape the inner boards are in. One player may have borne off a few men, but have a bunch stacked up on the five and six points. In that case, and especially if there's only one man to bring around to start bearing off, it may be correct to take the cube.
As for folks who'll take it any time, I'm very happy to offer them the cube, since I don't offer it unless I think I'm far enough ahead to have a very good chance (say, twice their chance, or more) of prevailing. A discussion for another thread would be when it's correct to take the cube...I think some folks tend to decline it a tad too often (but I'm no expert).
Is it ever "rude" to offer a double in a backgammon match?
My two cents, FWIW: No, it's not rude provided it's not pointless (e.g., the game isn't already going to decide the match). Even if it's a situation where you're certain to win that round, you should be free to offer a double. As you say, it's almost like saying "Let's move on." (In fact, in that situation if I did offer a double, I'd probably actually say that in the message area.) At that point, if their situation really is hopeless, your opponent should simply congratulate you on a good win, and hope to take revenge in the next round. ;-)
That's how I look at it, anyway...
-- T.J. :-)
Re: Etiquette of doubling in matches
Message #85 Replies: 0
posted by RedBaron (Will C. Crowder) on 12/08 at 19:21
T.J. (T.J. Crowder) wrote:
My two cents, FWIW: No, it's not rude provided it's not pointless (e.g., the game isn't already going to decide the match).
Thanks for the reply, T.J....I tend to agree (see my reply to Ironman).
I will offer the cube when I am ahead but I would rather not win a match based on someones lack of cubing knowledge. Maybe we need to open up a topic on cubing.
Hey, go for it! I've been wanting to do that, but every time I go to start composing something, I realize that I just don't know enough about it to write a worthwhile opener. I'd be interested to see your take (and the replies, of course!). -- T.J. Crowder Pocket-Monkey.com
Re: Etiquette of doubling in matches
Message #98 Replies: 1
posted by RedBaron (Will C. Crowder) on 12/10 at 15:37
ironmanmv (marc) wrote:
I will offer the cube when I am ahead but I would rather not win a match based on someones lack of cubing knowledge. Maybe we need to open up a topic on cubing.
That's a good point, about not wanting the "bad win." I agree with T.J...A topic should probably be started on this (but I also don't know enough about it to write a good opener). Go for it!
I see the lack of cubing knowledge (to the extent that I'm able to recognize it) in both directions: I've won games because I got lucky and the other person really should have offered the cube (which I would have declined) but didn't, and of course I've also properly offered the cube and then had it (IMHO) incorrectly taken...but sometimes, folks are just feeling lucky. I'm also a bit more liberal about taking the cube if it's early in a match, or I'm hopelessly behind anyway...but those are both probably mistakes.
Tuff topic to talk about since there is a lot of things to consider when cubing. I think the cube shouldn’t be offered at the beginning of the game since you haven’t established yourself on the board yet. Offer the cube when you feel that you have at least 70% chance of winning based on your board layout. Accept the cube if you think you have at least 50% chance of winning. Don’t count on doubles or luck. Consider the board layout. Has your opponent got good coverage on slowing you down by having key points covered? Even if your opponent is behind if you cannot use the dice to your advantage then offering the cube could be a risk. Don’t use the pip count to make your judgment since I feel board layout is more important. Use the cube to your advantage. When leading use the cube to reduce your chances of losing a match why only earn 1 point per game when you could earn 2 or more. In money games the cube has value since we are playing for points here the only value is ratings. Play the cube as though it had real value. But that’s my 2 cents worth. There’s a ton of articles and formulas available on the net to read about cubing. I think that players should test the waters so to speak to get comfortable using the cube. Always remember when you offer the cube at the wrong time or if you are not at an advantage you take the risk that it will be offered back to you.
This is perhaps more in the nature of strategy than ethics, but I can't agree with Marc's advice on accepting a double. Consider expected value: Declining the double has an expected value of -1 (loss of one game). Accepting a double if I have only a 40% chance of winning has expected value of -.4 (40% times plus 2 less 60% times -2; or .8-1.2=-.4). This ignores the added advantage of controlling the cube. Expected value is not the only strategic consideration, of course, because of affordable risk given part scores, etc., but generally speaking one should accept a double with substantially less chance than a 50% chance of winning. Now if only I could truly figure my chance of winning! ;-)
Re: Re: Re: Etiquette of doubling in matches
Message #373 Replies: 1
posted by ChipsChsp (Chips Chap) on 03/26 at 16:42
My early impressions of backgammon (2 months experience) are that virtually anything goes that is legal (according to the rules). Winning a match based on the opponent's lack of cubing knowledge could also be viewed as winning a match based on your own superior knowledge.
Backgammon strikes me as much more cutthroat than say checkers (my usual game) or chess. Of course, backgammon seems to be played for money more often than not (on-line excepted).
Play single point games till you become more familiar with the cube. Find players that are willing to help you become more familiar with the cube or moves.
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