Today I have been chastized by two different opponents accusing me of bad sportsmanship due to using the cube in a 5 point tournament game. As it turned out, due to using the cube I won all 4 matches rather easily.
I am not concerned over the bad mouthing, after all, he who laughs last etc etc, but I am concerned that this opinion is held by more than just these 2 players. There was an earlier post on the Forums from another player who complained about being blocked in intentionally lol.
I hope that people who read this do some research on using the cube. The skill of Backgammon is mainly based on multiple point games usually for gambling and the use of the cube. You will find the very very good players usually only play single point games for fun only, not too seriously. It is the multiple point games that interest the champions mostly.
So, the next time you have an opponent offering a double, do not think to yourself "man this is so unfair" rather think to yourself "wow, nice play, he/she has really put me in a tough position. should I risk losing 2 points over this or cut my losses"
Also lastly, funny enough one of the people who accused me of unsportsmanlike use of cube dicided that after stating they had NEVER used the cube before, doubled me when they were 4-3 down in a 5 pointer !!!
doubling is a big part of the game, if people dont like it they should stick to 1 point games. Using doubling is all part of playing a tactical game, should i risk it? is it too much of a gamble?
The cube makes it all more exiting and I use it sometimes when I seem to be ahead but have 1 stone with potential problems. That way I opt for 1 certain point instead of MAYBE 2 through a gammon. Sometimes I see people using the cube with just 1 stone left on te board.....I may ask you why? The cube can even be used to speed up the game. If I'm far ahead, still at least 10 moves to make and no chance for my opponant to win, I offer double b/c I know they will decline and we can start next game.
So, I like the cube and will use it at often as possible b/c it is an intrinsical part of the game.
To me, using the cube when you're absolutely certain to win if you roll your dice would be rude, but I've never had anyone do it to me (and in any case, it's just a personal opinion).
But there are several situations which can appear to be rude to the casual player which are really just good play. Say for instance your opponent is certain to win if they get another turn, and you have one piece on your 5 point. That's a doubling situation which can frequently be misunderstood, because there are 5 rolls where you won't be able to bear off that one piece (11, 12, 13, 21, and 31) and your opponent will win. It's only a 13.8% chance (5:36), but why take the risk? Another of these which is actually more dramatic is when you have two pieces left, both on your 2 point. In that situation, there are 10 rolls where you'll lose (12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 21, 31, 41, 51, and 61) because you can't bear off both men, and 26 where you'll win. That's about a 27% chance of losing if you roll your dice, vs. the virtual certainty of winning if you double. In those situations, I usually include a note with the turn saying why I'm doubling, because to the inexperienced player it can seem a bit off.
Mostly, though, I'm a great believer in giving people the benefit of the doubt in these things!
The real point I was making was not necessarily about the double appearing rude, but was trying to point out in the nicest possible way how easy the win was due to "using" the cube. If I didn't use the cube at all in most of these games, the match may have turned into a long drawn out affair in which the result may have changed, however, due to the use of the cube, the win became far more swift and certain.
At the end of the day, I find it very poor taste to chastize anyone who is playing by the rules when you do not either understand the tactics fully, or understand the reasons for your opponent to do such things
Re: Using the doubling cube
Message #3106 Replies: 0
posted by RedBaron (Will C. Crowder) on 07/21 at 18:46
We have the rules pages for games, of course, but no strategy/tip pages. Maybe it'd be a good idea to have some of the basic strategies/tactics of games included in a section on the game help page. The BG pages could include sections on basic odds, basic checker play and basic doubling strategy.
I can only think of two cases where doubling is rude: 1) If the game is already worth enough points to give someone the match, then a double offer by that someone is a bit rude (not to mention, stupid), and 2) [the case TJ cited] If you're DEFINITELY going to win if you roll, then offering a double is rude. You can't even make a "move the game along" argument in that case (and in fact, offering the cube just slows things down). However, offering the cube when you're certain or near-certain to win, but it will take several rolls, is not rude at all, in my opinion. It's just playing the game (and moving it along).
TJ's other point is of course very well taken: Give people the benefit of the doubt. The vast majority of folks playing here are playing for casual fun (there's no money involved here) and are nice folks. Some folks are very good players, others not so good. I've been fortunate to play some very nice people who are more skilled than I am and from whom I generally learn a great deal. Free education, can't beat that! I've also been in positions where I've mentored folks who aren't playing at my level (which isn't all that high, really, but which is a tad higher than a purely casual player; I play a LOT of BG here; experience definitely helps).
Finally, I think it's worth pointing out that once a certain level of checker play is reached (I'm not saying I'm there, or close!), the game can be rather boring. In matches, the cube adds another dimension of skill to the game and makes it far more interesting.
I think the statement "If you can't stand the cube, don't play matches" is good advice. You can also, of course, agree beforehand to play a cubeless match, and I think that might be a nice option to have codified instead of it having to be on the honor system. Personally, I'm not that interested in playing cubeless matches, but I know some folks really are and that's fine.
Wow! I was chastized also. Wonder if it was the same player?. We each had 3 pips left and i had the upper hand of the turns, i cold have lost if my opponent had rolled any doubles, which he had just done to make the game as close as it was. So i offered the double he refused and wrote that he doesnt appreciate abuse of the doubling cube. Was i wrong?
Quite the opposite, I'd say that's a perfectly reasonable time to use the cube and would applaud my opponent for it if they did it to me. You had the upper hand and you were trying to lock in the victory rather than take the roughly-one-in-three chance of losing because your opponent gets doubles on their next roll.
I've had someone offer me the cube (on another site, as it happens) when I had fourteen pieces left to bear off, he had only two pieces left, and they were on the bottom two points (one piece on each). If he'd rolled, he would have won on that turn. But instead he offered the cube. That's very nearly the only situation I can imagine where offering the cube could reasonably be considered rude, and even then it's a bit hard to say. I mean, suppose his pieces had been a bit further up the table and it would probably have taken him two rolls to take them off -- then offering the cube is just a way to move on in the match, not rude, IMHO. My only complaint about what he did was that it didn't move the game forward any faster, not even one turn, and so I felt he was being a bit cheeky -- but maybe he'd taken a quick glance at the board and missed the fact that it was impossible it would take a second turn to finish the game.
-- T.J. :-)
Re: Using the doubling cube
Message #7273 Replies: 1
posted by pint of beer (john shields) on 03/19 at 18:31
i do not like the double cube and now can play matches on here without it`s use (in fact i suggested the none cube matches here), before the none cube matches i played a lot of the early cube match tournies (still have some games going) i will finish all my matches though i very rarely use the cube in fact the last three times i clicked on double when i was tired and before i realised i had offered the double. i sometimes accept if i think there is a good chance of the win, but on no account do i abuse others using a legal way to play. I usually stick a question mark for people being rude like the instnce that T.J. quotes. i think it is not nice to offer a double from a certain win when the player been offered the double has not even a minor chance of winning
Just to clarify, the only time I personally think it might be rude is if the player's going to win anyway on that turn. Otherwise, it's perfectly normal practice to offer the double when your opponent is in a hopeless situation, just to move the match along. I don't think that's rude at all, especially when the other player is really quite far behind and doesn't have any pieces off the board yet, but clearly will get pieces off the board. In that situation, the losing player can't resign the game and move on because if they did they'd resign a gammon. What the doubling player is doing then is giving the losing player the chance to move on without losing a gammon. (Naturally, they don't want to do that if there's a chance the other player won't get a piece off the board.) Far from rude, I actually think that's polite.
-- T.J. :-)
What does the "64" on teh cude denote?
Message #6550 Replies: 1
posted by finchie75 (Caryl Finch) on 02/21 at 02:51
Hi there...I am wondering if anyone can answer a question regarding the "64" on the doubling cube. What does this number mean? I have used teh cube many times and understand how it plays, but I have yet to get why it shows "64" before a double stakes comes into play (and then, of course, it shows "2"). Any insights?
It's just convention. The cube goes to 64 (there are six sides, each worth double the previous one: 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, and 64). In a real-life match, convention is that the doubling cube is placed with the 64 side up in-between the two players (with a folding backgammon case, usually on a raised bit between the places on each side where borne-off pieces go). This indicates that neither player has the cube and the game is not doubled. Later, when someone offers a double, it's turned to the appropriate number and placed on that player's side of the board to indicate that that player "has" the cube. So all the 64 means (when the cube is in the middle) is that the game isn't doubled. (I've never seen it happen, but if you were playing a match of more than 32 points, in a spectacularly unusual match you might see six doubles taking the stakes all the way up to 64. But again, that's extraordinarily unlikely and you could still tell the difference between that and an un-doubled match by seeing that the cube was on one side of the board or the other, rather than in the middle.)
posted by heartsvertigo (Bob Bowman) on 03/29 at 16:49
The 64 is not the highest level allowed, you can continue 128,256, and so on by restarting at 2. Games of that level are very, very rare, mostly they are reached because one of the players is a "steamer" and is trying to get lucky in one huge game.T.J. (T.J. Crowder) wrote:
Hi CJ,
It's just convention. The cube goes to 64 (there are six sides, each worth double the previous one: 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, and 64). In a real-life match, convention is that the doubling cube is placed with the 64 side up in-between the two players (with a folding backgammon case, usually on a raised bit between the places on each side where borne-off pieces go). This indicates that neither player has the cube and the game is not doubled. Later, when someone offers a double, it's turned to the appropriate number and placed on that player's side of the board to indicate that that player "has" the cube. So all the 64 means (when the cube is in the middle) is that the game isn't doubled. (I've never seen it happen, but if you were playing a match of more than 32 points, in a spectacularly unusual match you might see six doubles taking the stakes all the way up to 64. But again, that's extraordinarily unlikely and you could still tell the difference between that and an un-doubled match by seeing that the cube was on one side of the board or the other, rather than in the middle.)
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